Monday, February 19, 2007

How to lose friends and alienate people

I've been enjoying this:
"A PRE-ELECTION row over claims of xenophobia within the SNP deepened yesterday when a senior Liberal Democrat claimed that Scottish nationalism was all about "building up barriers" between people.

The parties were supposed to be courting each other ahead of the Holyrood elections in May, after which they might have to agree a coalition agreement.

But that was looking more distant than ever last night after an astonishing series of insults and demands were traded publicly between them.

Jamie Stone, the Liberal Democrat MSP for Caithness and Sutherland, sparked the spat on Saturday when he accused the SNP of being "xenophobic" - just after his leader, Nicol Stephen, had publicly berated the other main parties of running a negative campaign.

Mr Stone's comments provoked a barrage of complaints from the SNP, with Alex Salmond, the party's leader, demanding an apology and action from Mr Stephen against Mr Stone.

Then, yesterday, Danny Alexander, the MP for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey, fuelled the controversy by insisting there was an issue which had to be addressed.

Mr Alexander refused to issue a categoric apology, either on behalf of Mr Stone or his party, and then compounded the row by stating on BBC Scotland's Politics Show: "Nationalism is about building up barriers between people, liberalism is about breaking those barriers down.""
Having previously accused the Scottish Liberal Democrats of slippery opportunism, of being willing to sacrifice just about any principle or break any agreement for electoral gain I have to say I'm quite impressed. The outrage has to do with the fact that Mr Stone has done that rarest of things in politics - he's told the truth.

SNP are all about cuddly inclusive 'civic nationalism'?

Are.

They.

Fuck.

14 comments:

David B. Wildgoose said...

That's funny, because I remember when the "Unionist" Labour and "Unionist" Liberal Democrat Parties introduced additional fees on English students simply because of their nationality - "English".

Fees that did not apply to French, Germans, Italians, etc.

At the time, Fiona Hyslop the SNP Education spokeswoman said "I find the anti-English aspect of (these) proposals abhorrent. I cannot see why English visitors to our country should be treated with any less respect than visitors from anywhere else in the European Union."

So tell me again, as an Englishman, why I shouldn't prefer an SNP-led Scottish government?

Shuggy said...

So tell me again, as an Englishman, why I shouldn't prefer an SNP-led Scottish government?

Since you favour the Balkanisation of Britain, I can't think of a single reason why you shouldn't welcome an SNP-led Scottish government.

David B. Wildgoose said...

But Shuggy, you claim to believe in a UK with a United "Us".

Unfortunately, when this bigoted and anti-English legislation was passed, the only outrage was that the SNP had scored some cheap political points.

The so-called Unionist "Us" didn't actually care enough to protest because it only affected "Them".

So where's the United Purpose?

Where's the togetherness?

Nowehere, that's where.

These are the facts on the ground.

I merely want the political setup to mirror the reality - the UK has already fractured, and the so-called Unionists in the other "Home" nations didn't actually care enough at the time to do anything about it. After all, it's only the English who are suffering...

Anonymous said...

…and while we are on the subject.

Why should there be Scottish MPs in Westminster and a Scottish Parliament.

One or the other I can see – but both? Surely that’s two bites of the cherry.

One can see the reason for Gordon Brown’s enthusiasm for the union of course…
PA

Ken Waldron said...

SNP are all about cuddly inclusive 'civic nationalism'?
Are.
They.
Fuck.

So Shuggy, where is the evidence?
Which particular SNP policies espouse 'Ethnic' Nationalism as opposed to the Civic variety?

Lurkio said...

Once the likes of the Mail and the Express start getting their xenophobic, Jock-baiting claws into PM Irn Broon, our friends down south will lurch to the right the first chance they get and leave Scotland faced with a hostile Tory government in Westminster and death by a thousand cuts.

I am pretty damn sure that, for many of us, any prospective "Balkanization of Britain" would be a damn sight preferable to living under those bastards again.

Gus Abraham said...

Ken's quite right - this is slanderous nonsense. Which is of course the reason the Lib dems back-peddled furiously, somehting Mondeo Chasers aren't used to.

The message: dont challenge the Union or your accused of being anti-English. Pathetic.

Anonymous said...

Hey Lurkio!

It's arguable the English are living under (in parliament)- and susidising (in Tax)the Scots.

Further even if Nu-Laybur didn't stay in power the tax give away north of the boarder would be unlikely to abate.

Keep rolling in it even while you bleat.

(steps back and awaits the explosion)

Shuggy said...

this is slanderous nonsense

Really? Absolutely no anti-English sentiment amongst grassroots SNPers? Believe that and you're capable of believing anything. Either that or you simply need to get out more.

Used to be the case that Unionists politicians could find themselves compared to Lord Haw-Haw. Used to get the odd call to take 'direct action against the British state'. I would admit they're more careful now.

Lurkio said...

Absolutely no anti-English sentiment amongst grassroots SNPers?

I don't doubt for one minute that there is still a fair bit of that rubbish floating around in the underbelly of the SNP support...but are you seriously asserting that everyone who might prefer an independent Scotland over a centre-right UK aeternus must therefore also subscribe to that kind of racist bilge ? You simply need to get out more, Shuggy :-)

BTW anonymous, I take no pleasure in either the supposed Scottish raj "running" the UK nor the alleged subsidisation of Scotland by England - this particular Jock is "bleating" on about all of us getting some fairness on both sides of the border. IMO, the status quo seems to ensure that at least one side gets shafted...

Shuggy said...

but are you seriously asserting that everyone who might prefer an independent Scotland over a centre-right UK aeternus must therefore also subscribe to that kind of racist bilge ?

Of course not. I'm reacting to the frankly preposterous notion that the SNP rank and file are completely free from bigotry and prejudice. Instead of demanding apologies, I'd be more impressed if the SNP leadership did more to reign in some of the head-bangers that anyone who knows anything about the SNP know exist, and are by no means a tiny minority.

I have to say the idea that I should produce evidence of this from SNP policies is absolutely pathetic. Obviously any party manifesto is going to be a santitised affair. But I would have to make the charge that anyone who denies the presence of prejudice amongst some, although not all, of the nationalist rank and file is either ignorant or a liar. And pretending it's a tiny insignificant minority just won't wash with me.

Ken Waldron said...

'I have to say the idea that I should produce evidence of this from SNP policies is absolutely pathetic.'

Is it?

I must declare that I have vested interests in this matter.
I am ethnicly part Jewish and part Romany: Certainly enough to be exterminated as 'Untermensch' under the Nazi regime.

What about you?

I also consider myself 100% Scottish. Does that bug you?

Yes, I have met bigots who support the SNP, but I have also met many likewise who support the Labour party, and I am quite sure there are just as many bigots (if not more) who support the Tories.

But I am apparently 'pathetic' because I ask you to prove your assertion?

Shuggy - Put up or shut up.

Gus Abraham said...

i dont think its a cohernet allegation Shuggy, see my post on Lib Dems today.

Every party has bams and there's a small but understandable element of anti-English sentiment in Scottish society.

Yours from Nowheresville

Gus

Grant Thoms said...

So Shuggy, which is the only political party in the UK to have broken the 'cordon sanitaire' around the BNP in the last few years? Why it's the Lib Dems on Burnley Council, supporting a BNP nomination to a regeneration company before a Labour nominee. Not even I would stoop that low.

Lib Dems - not so much xenophobes, as scary ignorant people

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